The majority of the community sucks (or does it?)

[Bryant Again]

Originally Posted by Improvavel

Infinite minions, no soul reaping cap, pets leaving exploitable bodies, watch yourselves, no scatter from AoE ...

Yeah no problems at all...

Problems that were largely addressed. The problems caused by PvE skills, consumables, titles, and more are very intentional and not overlooked problems.

Originally Posted by Improvavel

If there was 2 humans teams, at least semi decent one, fighting each other, one with 8 lvl 20 the other with 8 lvl 28 with hm bonuses, who you think will win?

Humans...because they're humans. But that's not how player vs. environment games are balanced.

By that same following of logic, every shooter that pits you up against monsters is horribly unbalanced. Why don't we see more - if any - players complaining about it?

[Improvavel]

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

Problems that were largely addressed. The problems caused by PvE skills, consumables, titles, and more are very intentional and not overlooked problems.

Protective Spirit is a problem and it is very intentional.

Soon after consumables and PvE skills being taking care of, people will be crying for Ether Renewal protectors to be nerfed.

Humans...because they're humans. But that's not how player vs. environment games are balanced.

I meant 2 teams of humans.

By that same following of logic, every shooter that pits you up against monsters is horribly unbalanced. Why don't we see more - if any - players complaining about it?

Shooters have auto-saves, quick saves, check points. You die you reload. Even if its a 50-50 chance to win (or 1 in 100), you just save when you win and load when you lose till you finish the game.

Now try finish a shooter game in the top difficulty with no saves.

[DreamWind]

Improvavel you haven't answered my question. Wouldn't you be happier if Guild Wars was a single player offline game where you could do whatever you wanted with no impact on anybody else and nobody else impacting you?

[Improvavel]

Originally Posted by DreamWind

Improvavel you haven't answered my question. Wouldn't you be happier if Guild Wars was a single player offline game where you could do whatever you wanted with no impact on anybody else and nobody else impacting you?

I wouldn't be happier because I use if to play with my girl and some other friends, but if it could be played in lan or TCP/IP, yes I wouldn't have any problems.

As I already said...

Now, GW could easily be off line single player. It isn't because the Anet people know that you need to add value to a game to prevent piracy - some of them were involved in B.net creation after all.

If I wanted to play a real MMORPG I would be playing WoW. I don't play GW instead of WoW because of no fee or something. I would only play WoW if I had several real life friends interested on playing it together.

Earlier on you came back again with that titles and gear exist to differentiate players.

Well I'm happy that most of the stuff people consider beautiful and desirable I consider it ugly (exception of tormented shields and spears, voltaic spears, and obsidian armor for rits/paras/necros).

I can actually differentiate myself and feel unique in a sea of obsidian armors using chaos gloves and blindfolds clones.

[Foe]

Quite possibly mankind's greatest literary contribution in this new millennium.
This thread sets new precedent in our species oldest and most profound attempts at guildwars analysis.

Until Sk8erBoi007 weighs in on the current viability of Flesh Golem in AB this debate has yet to begin in full.

[Bryant Again]

Originally Posted by Improvavel

Protective Spirit is a problem and it is very intentional.

...Intentionally left alone, and one I'm not disregarding in the evergoing list of problems.

There's no reason to leave PvE imbalanced.

Originally Posted by Improvavel

Shooters have auto-saves, quick saves, check points. You die you reload. Even if its a 50-50 chance to win (or 1 in 100), you just save when you win and load when you lose till you finish the game.

Resurrection points and spells. Definitely not the same thing, but far from nothing

[Bryant Again]

Originally Posted by Gun Pierson

Ow yes there is...

Emphasis: no good reason. Valve went full-steam ahead (ick, horribly unintended pun) with Left 4 Dead and advancing on other endeavors, but that's not stopping them from updating TF2 and, though not as much, DoD:S.

ANet can either have one quality game in their catalog or two. Or none, time will tell.

[DreamWind]

Originally Posted by Improvavel

I wouldn't be happier because I use if to play with my girl and some other friends, but if it could be played in lan or TCP/IP, yes I wouldn't have any problems.

Then that is what you need...an offline game that can be played on lan or TCP/IP. Guild Wars clearly isn't your game.

Originally Posted by Improvavel

If I wanted to play a real MMORPG I would be playing WoW.

You are playing a real MMORPG...its called Guild Wars. Lets suggest god mode and 10 billion damage in WoW and see what happens with that community lol.

Originally Posted by Improvavel

I can actually differentiate myself and feel unique in a sea of obsidian armors using chaos gloves and blindfolds clones.

Why the need to feel unique? I thought you don't care about anybody else...

Originally Posted by Gun Pierson

Earth to Dreamwind and Bryant: Anet doesn't have the recources available to do anything big in GW1. NCSoft gave them green light for GW2, GW1 is in its final stage.

I hear this a lot and it is really stupid every time I hear it. "Anet is working on GW2 thus GW1 is allowed to go into the shitter because their resources are elsewhere". Do you think because Blizzard is working on SC2 they will let WoW and every other game they made go down the shitter? Do you think any other good company would allow that? Anet has TWO games to their name and they are allowed to let one go down the shitter in favor of the other?

[Improvavel]

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

...Intentionally left alone, and one I'm not disregarding in the evergoing list of problems.

There's no reason to leave PvE imbalanced.

Money and the definition of PvE.

Resurrection points and spells. Definitely not the same thing, but far from nothing

In the current format. If Anet implemented all of your ideas and made AI smarter, neutralizing some of the human advantages, things would be quite quite different.

Shooters and other games can be a lot harder because of saves. Imagine if in Far Cry I didn't have saves and had to kill that stupid mutant with only 6 (or was it 3) rounds in my weapon. And if I failed to get to get 1 or 2 of those dead center in that thing brain in the 1 second while it is in the air jumping at me I had to play the entire game to that point? Without making a mistake.

With saves I just reload till I get lucky.

Originally Posted by DreamWind

Then that is what you need...an offline game that can be played on lan or TCP/IP. Guild Wars clearly isn't your game.

Freedom of will say otherwise, especially because you are the one complaining about the game, while I'm still having fun.

You are playing a real MMORPG...its called Guild Wars. Lets suggest god mode and 10 billion damage in WoW and see what happens with that community lol.

First it was you that said it is in there already with PvE and consumables. It isn't.

Second, knowing there was cheats in this game (or other games like diablo ii) never made me cheat or knowing people were duping never affected directly my game experience. If someone is cheating in a PvP game, like a 1vs1 warcraft 3 game, that affects my experience.

But I'm a somewhat balanced and disciplined person. You are a person that compares the nuking of a human population to the disaster of god mode and instant kill in a game.

And don't even realize the non-sense that argument is...

Why the need to feel unique? I thought you don't care about anybody else...

I care about some persons, the ones I love. I don't need to feel unique - I'm unique as I think with my own brain, right or wrong, not needing to use the same everyone else to have the sense of accomplishing or feel good.

I use what I feel looks better in my character. If for you what looks better is what is rarest and then get pissed when every other sheep wants the same and gets it and then cry it has no value anymore it is you problem, not mine.

I hear this a lot and it is really stupid every time I hear it. "Anet is working on GW2 thus GW1 is allowed to go into the shitter because their resources are elsewhere". Do you think because Blizzard is working on SC2 they will let WoW and every other game they made go down the shitter? Do you think any other good company would allow that? Anet has TWO games to their name and they are allowed to let one go down the shitter in favor of the other?

WoW pays for itself. Blizzard is also much bigger and has much more money than Anet.

But real considerations as money probably don't cross your mind.

[Bryant Again]

The only thing stopping ANet from giving more resources to GW1 is themselves. That's it. They themselves, and they alone, are not going to fix what they left in GW1.

Originally Posted by Improvavel

Money and the definition of PvE.

Quality also gets you money. I'm not sure if this was realized or not. Next, what would have to be *your* definition of PvE?

Originally Posted by Improvavel

In the current format. If Anet implemented all of your ideas and made AI smarter, neutralizing some of the human advantages, things would be quite quite different.

Just because things may have the chance to be more difficult? Wha?

[Improvavel]

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

The only thing stopping ANet from giving more resources to GW1 is themselves. That's it. They themselves, and they alone, are not going to fix what they left in GW1.

Yes money grows in tree and games fix themselves.

Quality also gets you money. I'm not sure if this was realized or not. Next, what would have to be *your* definition of PvE?



Just because things may have the chance to be more difficult? Wha?

More difficult isn't equal to balanced. Either you want it more difficult and you want it so you get a ranking of players in pve and feel especiall by doing stuff other people can't , because whatever you say you can give the dumb AI more chances in your copiy of the game, or you want it more balanced and that isn't equal to more difficult.

If you wanted balance, you would be talking of the aspects that aren't related to players but affect game too.

[Bryant Again]

Originally Posted by Improvavel

Yes money grows in tree and games fix themselves.

Sarcasm detector failing on this end. Are you outright saying "no, quality doesn't make you successful"? And I'm still waiting for the game to release it's "automatic balance update".

Originally Posted by Improvavel

More difficult isn't equal to balanced.

Hold up, how does any of this relate to resurrection shrines and skills?

[DreamWind]

Originally Posted by Gun Pierson

All in time though, you have to let them grow step by step, just like Blizzard did in the old days with Warcraft1 and so on.

Originally Posted by Improvavel

WoW pays for itself. Blizzard is also much bigger and has much more money than Anet.

But real considerations as money probably don't cross your mind.

So let me get this straight...even though GW has been touted as a success and has the sales numbers to prove it (not neccessarily the player count but definately the sales numbers)...it somehow doesn't pay for itself and Anet has no resources whatsoever to fix its problems. There are a lot more companies other than Blizzard that don't let that happen to this extent.

Heres a more likely answer...Anet has given up. It is either that or they think everything is fine, which is even worse.

Originally Posted by Improvavel

Freedom of will say otherwise, especially because you are the one complaining about the game, while I'm still having fun.

I'm glad you're having fun...until it is at the expense of others which many of your suggestions would be.

Originally Posted by Improvavel

But I'm a somewhat balanced and disciplined person. You are a person that compares the nuking of a human population to the disaster of god mode and instant kill in a game.

And don't even realize the non-sense that argument is...

It is only nonsense because you didn't get the point of it.

Originally Posted by Improvavel

I use what I feel looks better in my character. If for you what looks better is what is rarest and then get pissed when every other sheep wants the same and gets it and then cry it has no value anymore it is you problem, not mine.

Translation: If they get bombed its their problem not mine.

[Bryant Again]

@you, good sir:

Originally Posted by meee

The only thing stopping ANet from giving more resources to GW1 is themselves. That's it. They themselves, and they alone, are not going to fix what they left in GW1.

They are choosing to put all of their resources into GW2.
They are choosing to neglect GW1 and keep it in a such a state of disarray.

Unless, of course, they were somehow forced at gunpoint to *not* put anymore effort into GW1.

[fb2000]

Oh guys come on, no non-PvP game can be really hard :X. It can only be hard if the designers fecked up and a certain part is unpassable / unsolvable. Thats about it

And of course Anet dont have that much spare money to keep adding FREE content to this game :X. Who's gonna pay the bills? Its not just staff payrolls you know

PS Tormented shields and voltaic spears are amongst the fugliest items I know of in this game

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

Unless, of course, they were somehow forced at gunpoint to *not* put anymore effort into GW1.

Noone is willing to work for free full-time mate.
But really, "state of disarray"?

[Bryant Again]

Originally Posted by Gun Pierson

The world moves on, new software and hardware comes along, publishers and devs move on. Gamers move on.

Good games don't. Quality doesn't. These things leave an impression, a footprint. They don't go away, at least not in an easy sense.

But bad games do. Bad games will come and go, carelessness will help carry tem along, degrading features will kick them out the door - all those things Guild Wars now has.

And ANet is just letting it wash down the drain.

No sane developer should want that to happen to their game, especially when what they had was a pure gem.

Originally Posted by fb2000

Noone is willing to work for free full-time mate.
But really, "state of disarray"?

Disregard for the PvP community, abandonment of "skill>time" in PvE, general abandonment of "skill" altogether, etc.

[fb2000]

Hm I should really stop posting, dont feel im adding anything worthwhile to this discussion, but still :
Every marketed game has a limited developers life - the period in which it gets updates, bugs get removed, etc. There isnt a single exception to that. Gun Pierson said it, the industry moves on. Thats life. Might be harsh, but thats all we got so we might as well adapt to it.

Every "legendary" game (meaning any extremely old game that still has a big community playing it) lives on not thru updates from the original developer - this same developer has always moved on to newer titles, which is what moves the whole damn industry forward. The game lives from the countless fans which love it and ADD stuff to it.
Take Quake 3 for example. The game is 10 years old and easily one of the biggest titles in all gaming history. Is this because of ID software continuously updating it? Nope.
Why is it still so much loved and played? Because countless fans made it a hobby to develop mods. These mods add new gameplay styles, change the game physics, improve the competitive aspects and so on..

Is ID software insane, as they let their game go? Dunno, they happen to be one of the most innovative studio, John Carmack is nothing short of a genius. But life is like that. Someone has to pay the bills, and an old game, especially one without monthly fees is hard to milk. What if ID decided to keep on fixing their old games? What if Blizzard, Westwood, Epic, Crytek and everyone else decided to do that? I wouldn't want to live in that world

I'd rather have Anet make GW2 all that which GW1 simply cannot be, than have them spend time fixing something which is already quite limited (then again, in my eyes GW is good enough the way it is, there are no perfect things in life either). GW1 tends to the needs of such a huge playerbase, everyone with different ideas and requirements, it's pretty much a Jack of all trades.. And you know how it goes, master of nothing.

[Fril Estelin]

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

No sane developer should want that to happen to their game, especially when what they had was a pure gem.

What devs need to do nowadays is sell, even more today because of the events of the last few months. Devs and Anet are not altruistic entities, they don't live to be remembered, they're here to make money. The kind of games you defend and want GW1 to be does not sell well, certainly not with a community like the one we have and to the point where you can make a sequel.

[Bryant Again]

Originally Posted by Gun Pierson

Well GW1 defenitely left an impression in the industry and amongst countless of gamers. And they will keep the servers up for a long time as there will always be people left who play the game. Just like Diablo etc. We will have updates and stuff yes as Anet came up with the Live team for that purpose. Just like Blizzard does with their games, so I think Anet is doing it right. So once again I'm not buying what you say there.

Yes, gogo ANet for completely trashing the depth of their PvE, their core philosophies of "skill>time", and what was the faithful standing of the PvP community. Bravo.

No, ANet are doing it, horribly, horribly wrong. Please reread the thread and tell me all of what's listed aren't problems. Just because they're not going to touch the majority of players does not excuse them, because the needs of the majority are always going to be easy to meet.

That's why I'm not going to put GW up there in that list. Blizzard didn't ruin the longevity, didn't cater solely to the cash (although the similar problem may be starting to arise in WoW right now, hence why those players are pissed), didn't cater solely to whining communities that did not have the game's interest at heart, and did not go the complete wrong way of fixing that which was broken. They did not subside the trust of the players who are knowledgeable and devoted to the game.

ANet did, and they're continuing onto GW2 to escape the sinking ship. Guild Wars is and will continue to be a success because it has the words "free to play" on it, but it's went to being a "fun game" from a "great game".

We'll wait and see what the April update brings, but I assume it's going to be the pattern they've been following in the recent updates: ignoring all these problems. I can't honestly believe you can tell me that that's all and good.

Originally Posted by Fril Estelin

What devs need to do nowadays is sell, even more today because of the events of the last few months. Devs and Anet are not altruistic entities, they don't live to be remembered, they're here to make money. The kind of games you defend and want GW1 to be does not sell well, certainly not with a community like the one we have and to the point where you can make a sequel.

Doom didn't sell well? Mass Effect didn't sell well? WoW didn't sell well? Starcraft didn't sell well?

Good games don't sell well???

[the_jos]

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

ANet did, and they're continuing onto GW2 to escape the sinking ship. Guild Wars is and will continue to be a success because it has the words "free to play" on it, but it's went to being a "fun game" from a "great game".

When I think of 'great games' for myself I think of the few games I still play once in a while nowadays.
Mainly some FPS and RTS titles.

But, there are only a very few of those that are single player and keep my interest. The rest are interesting because I can play with or against other people. That's because single player is always limited and has a finite number of options. That's also why new content is important in PvE.

However, when looking at the current PvE content it's still a great game I think. The content didn't change that much (though Prophecies and Factions got a lot easier with NF and PvE skills). But each and every chapter viewed by itself is about just as good as it used to be.

For example, I played UT a lot.
After a couple of years play, both offline (including limited LAN parties) and online I got bored with it.
It doesn't mean it's not a great game anymore. It still is. I just got bored with it. Not because of the lack of content or the lack of new opponents, I just wanted to play something else.
It's not strange for that to happen after a few 1000's of hours of play.
Now it feels like just a 'fun' game that I start up once in a while to play with some friends. But I know it's more than that, it's still a great game even though it doesn't feel like that anymore.

Maybe I changed more than the game did (true for both GW and UT I'd say)...